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Nemesis (2016-05-28 03:39:59)I know. I'm punching you because it was so bad.
SMOGamerX (2016-05-28 03:44:55)It would be cool if there is an afterlife but isn't cool at the same time...
Remember: Just when the caterpillar thought its world was over, it turned into a butterfly!
Lani (2016-05-28 03:56:32)80 years of living how you want is just a drop in the bucket of an eternity of suffering...if you want to gamble with the unkown, that's up to you, but there's no need to get angry with people who are trying to save you from an inescapable hell that they believe is real. If anything, you should appreciate their concern...they're not trying to force you into a joy-kill knowitall cult; from their point of view, they're trying to save you.
If you saw a blindman walking towards a cliff edge with no sign of stopping, wouldn't you tell him he's headed for doom? Then what if the blindman doesn't believe you?...wouldn't you keep trying to convince him, at least a few more times? Even if you don't persist, you'd probably feel obligated to warn him at least once.
There's as much evidence for the Bible/God being true as there is for the Big Bang...it just depends how you apply it. It's important to dwell on the unknown, because it could mean an eternity of either paradise or suffering. I'd rather live a religious life denying a few desires of life and find out it was a waste, than to live life how I want and end up in an eternity in hell. While that's my personal preference, and while I think everyone should have the freedom to decide for themselves, everyone deserves to know all their options...and you never know who your "bible thumping" might affect in a positive way.
Despite popular opinion, you can still have an enjoyable life while being religious. Denying yourself some of life's "pleasures" doesn't have to feel crappy, either...most people find pleasure in being righteous. Think of it as a relationship, sort of...you wouldn't cheat on your bae because you love them, they're special to you, you'd lose them if you cheated...the motivation to not mess around with a random hottie at the bar is strong, because it wouldn't be worth upsetting your bae. It's the same sort of motivation religion can give you. Denying some pleasures isn't such a chore becuase you feel like the end result is worth it because it's more enjoyable.
little5 (2016-05-28 10:59:07)I'm an agnostic atheist, meaning I don't believe in a god, but I don't claim to know there isn't one. With that, I do believe there is something more, something we all haven't come to understand yet. Personally, I like to wage with the possibility of there being an astral plane, reincarnation, and maybe more. I also think it's a bit cruel for a deity to prioritize that anyone who experiences heaven, believe in them, first and foremost. There are too many religions and too many places where people probably don't even have exposure to other religions. On top of that, there are places full of religious prosecution, I'm willing to bet there are laws sentencing anyone who even possesses a banned text to execution.
I don't know how gods judge, but that seems to be a pretty prominent belief.
I'm not sure if what I think is the astral plane is "the astral plane", but I don't know what else to call it. It's more of a lobby between life and death. There is karma, but as far as I know, it's not eternal damnation. You killed a ton of innocent people in your recent life? Okay. Now you're going to be the innocent, and you're gonna be the one getting killed. If you were a good person in your last life, then you'll have the choice of going to heaven or being reincarnated. The heaven is shaped to your liking.
What Hydra said is also something I think about, but, lowkey, that might be Supernatural's fault.
Honestly, I can't say I actually, wholeheartedly believe this stuff, but it's more of a nice thought and a little hope that the end isn't the end. It's far better than rotting inside your body for eternity.
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Nemesis (2016-05-28 14:23:50)@mega Nah I wasn't upset. I was just grumpy. My bad. Also, I disagree. It's not okay in my eyes to try to spread your religion. Also, I do have Mormon converts in my family so I guess I should agree it could work sometimes. But since when does ANYBODY actually convert to Jehovah's Witness, or whatever religion that comes knocking upon your door. But they still bother you on your Sunday morning. Or Saturday. Depends.
Little I'm pretty sure agnostics are people who claim they actually don't know. Like, you can't be a Christian agnostic who doesn't believe in God but claims Jesus is magical. I'm pretty sure you can't be an athiest agnostic. But whatever.
EDITS: Adding more to my posts, that's usually what it always is
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TwilightWinter (2016-05-28 15:52:27)@mega I don't get it. Jesus Christ was a prophet. A prophet's business is to preach what's true. Jesus did that. Why would Jesus give away his life to save others from hell? That would be unfair, why was he preaching them in the first place if he knew that he could just save them by getting executed.
God tells in the Qur'an that it wasn't Jesus who was executed, God beautifully hid Jesus. But Christians believed that it was Jesus who is executed because of their sins (Jesus suffered because of his follower's sins). Qur'an explains that Jesus was given miracles, it was a miracle that Jesus was lifted up to heaven or sky by God. After the rise of Antichrist, Jesus will come down as a follower of Islam and a new leader of the Muslims. I think its in the Bible too, that Jesus will come back.
This post has been edited one or more times, the last time was:2016-05-28 16:43:36
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little5 (2016-05-28 15:58:02)@Nemesis
Here:
[Simg]http://i.imgur.com/gYdYqYc.jpg[/simg]
Wikipedia article on agnostic atheism
Wikipedia article on agnostic theism
Atheism and agnosticism isn't the same thing. Atheism is not believing in a deity. Agnosticism is not knowing if there is or isn't a deity.
You can be a Christian agnostic, theist agnostic.
Believing isn't knowing. A Christian agnostic would believe Jesus rose, but they wouldn't have known.
This post has been edited one or more times, the last time was:2016-05-28 16:08:08
Lani (2016-05-28 21:54:06)@Mega
That's what makes Protestant Christianity unique to any other religion...we can be certain of our fate. There doesn't have to be any wonder if we've done enough works or earned enough grace to go to heaven, because the Bible is clear on exactly what's expected from us to be saved.
It's not just "say the prayer and you're in", however. God wants us to devote our lives to Him, and that means living our lives in a way that pleases Him. Jesus said "If you love me, keep my commandments", not "If you want to get into heaven, keep my commandments"...we don't follow His laws to earn our way into heaven, we follow His laws because it pleases Him...again, with the relationship analogy...when you love someone, you don't do things they like so you can earn their love, you do things they like because you love them. And heaven isn't supposed to be a personal paradise of peace and pleasure...heaven is the sanctuary of God...it's about being with Him, not earning an eternity of self-centered pleasure. Yet for Christians who find pleasure in their relationship with Christ, heaven IS still the greatest reward to them, because they finally get to be in His presence.
Too Long; Did not Read! Protestant Christianity isn't lazy, it's a unique relationship with an all-powerful being.
Anyway, these days there are so many "Christians" out there who shouldn't even be considered Christians..."I like your Christ, but not your Christians...your Christians are nothing like your Christ"...I know there are a lot of arrogant hypocritical professing Christians out there (and there always have been), and true, selfless, loving Christians can be so hard to find...but Christianity is such an incredibly deep and passionate religion, it really can't be fully expressed through a single sermon or article. Only studying the scriptures yourself can give you a full understanding, though I'm not suggesting everyone to try that if you're not at all interested in what Christianity is about...but then, you shouldn't act like you do know, just because you've seen a few comments on youtube saying: "THE HOMOSEXUALS ARE GOING TO HELL" or "GOD LOVES YOU AND HAS A WONDERFUL PLAN FOR YOUR LIFE!" In fact, I don't think any religion is that simple.
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little5 (2016-05-28 23:14:35)Do you guys go to one of those big churches with gyms and powerpoints and daycares and living rooms? Or do you go to one of those small churches that only have a kitchen and a dining area?
Irrelevant question. I'm doing somewhat of a survey.
TwilightWinter (2016-05-28 23:54:37)Ok, so even if protestant Christians say that they merely don't want to go to heaven because they want "personal pleasure", if they say that they want to go to heaven because they want to be in the company of God and Jesus Christ.
Then:
God is the creator, He made the universe. Why would He give the huge reward of heaven, for which He made the whole mankind, for which He sent 124000 prophets. The heaven is such a place from where Adam was sent to earth because of a misdeed. God didn't allow Adam in the heaven until he lived the life here according to God's will, why would He give heaven to a protestant Christian who wants to go to heaven because he admits that Jesus is his savior.
Heaven is a huge reward.. It can't be given by just being in a "unique relationship with an all-powerful being". That's unfair..
This post has been edited one or more times, the last time was:2016-05-28 23:57:50
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Lani (2016-05-29 02:33:56)"I would argue that Protestant Christianity is more unclear than some other religions because their lack of a living prophet."
Christianity doesn't need living prophets anymore, because we have the Bible which includes teachings from the prophets, and God does not change to modern times (Malachi 3:6)...everything we need to know is already in the Bible. Some biblical topics are up for some degree of interpretation and study...but anyone is entitled to do this.
"Many other religions are clear on what is required to be saved..."
According to what my Mormon friend has told me (He's a very active Mormon...been on his mission trip and he does/has taught in church, etc.) everyone will go to some level/tier of heaven (including the rapists and murders and pedophiles)...In this case, it's obvious that a mormon can know they'll go to heaven, because they believe that everyone does. What I meant by "only Protestants can be certain of their fate", is that only Protestants can be certain exactly where they'll be when they die. As for Mormons, you can't know what tier of heaven you'll go to...you may only know that the more Mormon works you do, the better heaven you'll get into, right? You have to earn your way up the latter of heavens (as I understand it), and you can't really know which heaven you've earned until you die.
As for Catholics, there's purgatory. "...while we may die with our mortal sins forgiven, there can still be many impurities in us, specifically venial sins and the temporal punishment due to sins already forgiven. [derived from a Catholic site]" Catholics cannot be certain that all their sins are forgiven, unlike Protestants. Catholics believe they will still have to pay for some sins even if they asked for forgiveness. They can never have peace that they won't suffer. I suppose if you want to get technical, they can pretty much be certain that they will inevitably suffer for some sins...
@TwilightWinter
...According to Christianity, Adam was created by God along with the earth and everything else...Adam wasn't sent to earth as any sort of punishment. He was created for God's pleasure, just as the rest of us.
Again, true Christianity isn't just about "believing in Jesus" and asking to be saved, it's about maintaining a relationship with Him as He intended, which I get into detail about below:
For any religion, our existence begs the question: "Why did (a) God create us to being with?". In terms of Christianity, God created us for His pleasure. He did not create us because he needed us in any way...as God, He needs nothing. Essentially, He created us because He felt like it...and He set whatever ground rules He wanted. It may seem to us that we're unworthy for such a great place as heaven without working for it...but according to His own word, we don't need to earn it through works...we earn it through merely loving Him. That's not to say you can love Him however you want...again, it's not as easy as just saying a prayer and you're in. Because if you love someone, you want to do what makes them happy, so therefore we do what He commands us to do. So we're not obeying His commands to gain favor with Him and earn our way into heaven...we obey His commands because we love Him.
IN SHORT:
It's not a "work free" salvation...self sacrifices and hardships will inevitably still be endured, we will still be obligated to do charity work or other good deeds, but it's not done to earn salvation, it's done out of love. It's the intent and inspiration behind our works that makes the difference.
TwilightWinter (2016-05-29 07:16:08)If all the rapists, murderers, pedophiles are gonna go to heaven. Why did God made hell?
@Lani According to Qur'an:
Adam was in heaven and God told him to do anything but do not eat this one fruit. That fruit is of heaven's tree.
Father Adam didn't wanted to eat but Satan kept telling him to eat it(the way he does it with us), and eventually made Father Adam eat it.
God didn't like our Father's act and he was sent down to earth. Mother Huwaa was made from his rib bone and that's how human population grew.
This shows he was sent down because of a misdeed.
But what do you know? Our Father was going to come to earth even if he didn't commit the sin, God planned all this to let people know heaven is not an ordinary place, like the great planner our God is.
You're telling the same story again.
The question is why would He give it to you when the only things you're doing is to admit that Jesus is your savior, and do some minor Church activities. Muslims have such a strict religion, but, It is totally worth to follow if you're getting heaven as a reward.
Why was Jesus given a book when he could just "save" you by getting executed?
Christians do not believe in Muhammad (PBUH) so I won't ask about Him. But..
Why only the believers of Jesus Christ? Why didn't God promise the same thing to the followers of Mosses? God never said that Jesus is better than other prophets in Bible or any other scripture. Right?
"Life of this world is just the enjoyment of deception." - Qur'an 3:185
EDIT: Error fixing.
This post has been edited one or more times, the last time was:2016-05-29 07:54:34
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Nemesis...
I was trolling...
...And you took the bait...